Below is an interview of Skinny Puppy (Key and Ogre) by none other than Stephen R. Gilmore who did their cover art and graphic design on most of their albums. It appeared in an obscure "industrial" magazine called "Ipso Facto."

After heavily searching the net and various Skinny Puppy pages to make sure no one else had already transcribed this interview, I satisfied myself that it was up to me to type this long ass interview out with my own little hands.

Since I don't hold any copyright on this interview (and hopefully I won't get sued by Ipso Facto) you can of course copy it and distribute it as you see fit. Although a brief mention of my transcription labor (my net-name is Isopo Kamuy) would be appreciated, I have no authority to require such a thing.


Ipso Facto Issue 7 1990

(I'm not sure if this magazine is still around, but here is the contact info:) (IPSO FACTO Publishing Inc. 657 Haight Street #2 San Francisco, CA 94117 Phone (415) 255-9265)


interviewed by Steven R. Gilmore

portraits by Kevin Westenburg (sorry, no scans for you)


Skinny Puppy were interviewed in November, 1989.

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STEVEN GILMORE: First, how did you guys come up with the name Skinny Puppy - I'm going to start right from the beginning.

CEVIN KEY: It came from 'life as seen through a dog's eyes' for the first song Canine (K-9). I used to say it as a weird thing to say and somehow it got applied toward the first song. The first thing we really said was Skinny Puppy and we never really changed it. I think that was the reason. When I first went over where Ogre was that day we had no concept of starting up a band. There was just gear lying around and we started writing with the gear and then the concept was "well, Ogre, why don't you do some vocals on this." And the concept was 'life as seen through a dogs eyes.' That was the first song we'd ever written.

STEVEN GILMORE: Tell me a little about Remission and how that came about as well as your first initial dealings with Nettwerk.

CEVIN KEY: Remission was just the excitement I had about everything and you bringing the cover to us and pushing me in that direction and being overall hyped over it. And I called Ogre on the phone and said, "I might be able to figure a way to get us into the studio via Rave" who Ogre didn't know at the time. So I called up Rave and he was doing things like The Glen and Joe Show in his spare time. So I said, "well, if he's going to do The Glen and Joe Show maybe he'd be interested in doing this." He was and so I called back over and said, "Ogre, we're going into the studio and do one song for free with Rave." So we went in and did Smothered Hope.

STEVEN GILMORE: Have you always associated your music with the horror genre or did that come later?

OGRE: For me I think it came as a result of the horror genre. We'd spend so much time watching horror movies and things like that. I was always engrossed in horror movies but never to the extent of when I came out here and started doing 14 hour video halls. That was probably where I got a lot of that side. With the music I think that's just the way these guys were on the inside to make it.

STEVEN GILMORE: Well, you also used a lot of samples from horror movies as well.



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OGRE: It's no lie that horror movies probably took over as a source of inspiration for a lot of it. We couldn't really look at 'life through a dog's eyes' as a concept for everything.

STEVEN GILMORE: Do you feel comfortable being associated with that or would you like to see changes in your music?

OGRE: A dog has always represented to me the average person and what the average person goes through in his life. Although I'm sure my life hasn't been exactly average.

STEVEN GILMORE: Like Kafka's "The Trial"? The last line in "The Trial" is when they kill K and he just says to his executioners, "like a dog."

OGRE: More like The Metamorphosis than The Trial. There's a trial of sorts, but ...

STEVEN GILMORE: Musically speaking, is it you that does most of the writing - you and Dwayne and Ogre does the lyrics?

CEVIN KEY: It can work a whole bunch of different ways; each thing could be totally different. Usually it turns out that I end up writing music with Dwayne or without Dwayne and then Ogre adds lyrics and vocals.

STEVEN GILMORE: So, Ogre comes over, listens to...

CEVIN KEY: I give Ogre a tape.

STEVEN GILMORE: And then Ogre comes over and tells you what he likes or dislikes about the song, or...

OGRE: We go over it together. it's always a give and take sort of thing, but we always come to an agreement of what the album should be like and what kind of direction we want to go in.

STEVEN GILMORE: But don't you take that into the studio and work on it from there?

CEVIN KEY: There's a number of processes that have to be done. This is like the bed tracks, right? They're really done just because they're inside of me anyway; I'll do them regardless of whether they'll be used. In reality I wouldn’t even mind going into the studio and going completely live right there on the spot. That's what I enjoy doing is writing so it's just a matter of each song depending on what we would decide before hand. For instance, Spahn Dirge on the new album (Rabies) is like a mic set up in a room with people jamming and then tracks added on top. Rodent is written live in the studio with everybody's input.

STEVEN GILMORE: Back to "Mind TPI". That was the first Capitol release in the states. Was it released in Europe on Capitol as well?

CEVIN KEY: Play It Again Sam. PIAS has released everything since the first record up to that. As soon as Cleanse came out it started going to EMI.

STEVEN GILMORE: Didn't mind make it on PMRC's Top 10.

OGRE: Yeah, we're on their hit list. They have a list of all their naughty albums for parents to present their children so they have a list of things to go out and buy.

STEVEN GILMORE: Have you guys made it on that list with every album?

OGRE: No. I think it's kind of an honorary thing. Once you're on you're in the hall of fame forever. I hope so anyway.

STEVEN GILMORE: Where did you first meet Dwayne?

CEVIN KEY: He opened for us when we played Edmonton after a small mini-tour we did.

STEVEN GILMORE: With his own band?

CEVIN KEY: He was playing with a band called Water which was him and a girl. And Dwayne seemed to be this total technical kind of person and had a good knowledge of gear. I didn't even know him as a person or anything like that. I just remembered that the music was good.

OGRE: It was very creative - he's a very creative person. Overall, he's skilled. He plays classical piano and he's very talented.

STEVEN GILMORE: Is the core of Skinny Puppy still considered Ogre and Cevin or are you a trio now?

OGRE: I think Dwayne has suffered long enough.

CEVIN KEY: It's a trio.

STEVEN GILMORE: So Dwayne joined the band and "Mind TPI" came out, also a few 12" singles?

CEVIN KEY: Well, first of all the day Mind TPI came out we started a three-and-a-half month world tour with Severed Heads. In Europe we had a;grumph opening for us. And that was the first sort of like "lose touch with reality" and get into this new world where time just changes. By the time you get home you realize you can't sit down anymore. After that tour nothing was ever the same again.

OGRE: It was really hard to adjust after that; it was a really hard tour.

CEVIN KEY: 70 something dates on that tour. That was our first meeting with people like Steve Montgomery and tour managers and agents that didn't pay us for things. Really an ultra learning experience.

STEVEN GILMORE: In a bad sense?

CEVIN KEY: Well in a good sense and in a bad sense.

OGRE: Looking back on it now I can see that what we did was basically go out there with a shovel for both Nettwerk and a lot of other bands that were following, like Front Line Assembly who could go out on their first tour and make money, and basically dug a channel for them to follow through.

STEVEN GILMORE: Plus, what people should avoid as well.

OGRE: We were an extreme example of going in blindly and expecting other people to do a lot of the work for us. That's the lesson a lot of bands have learned after us is to try and not put as much control in other people's hands. I can speak for myself and say I'm really lazy and if you let people do things for you pretty soon you realize just how far it can go. A good example is when another band goes out on the road on their first tour and they make money because they've taken the steps from hearing us bitch about our mistakes to not let it happen.

STEVEN GILMORE: So you guys are definitely making money on your tours now

CEVIN KEY: We did on the last tour.

OGRE: We did but we had to settle some things with an ambiguous record company and that took a long time to really settle. And it still seems like those pieces of paper come out of that company spewing out all these things to put us in the red.

STEVEN GILMORE: Speaking of record companies, how is your relationship with Nettwerk Records?

OGRE: Pppppp.

CEVIN KEY: I wouldn't say that my relationship is as bad as Ogre's but I would say that I know exactly what he's talking about but I just think with the experience that company's had and the experience that we've had as individuals we couldn’t have done it any differently because nobody's known any better.

OGRE: Exactly, but that still doesn't negate the fact. What I think Nettwerk tried to do was camouflage what this band is about for five years. And you really realize it when you come to do a video and you can't get financing for it.

STEVEN GILMORE: Do you think that the reason why they didn't budget for a video is because every video that you guys have done has been banned?

OGRE: That's again from a total units-per-hour attitude. All of our videos, although they've been banned, just from the fact that they've been banned created a need for kids to see them. And the fact that all those kids will see the videos; the video does get out in various ways, from community TV to dance clubs. There's all these other places for videos to be shown other than heavy rotation on MTV, which is all an independent label like Nettwerk really looks at. Which means they really aren't an independent label because they aren't trying to find other ways of marketing product.

STEVEN GILMORE: Aren't they gong to be putting it out as a video sampler?

OGRE: Yeah, it's going out but with an unnecessary amount of anxiety to all parties involved; the producer has had to use his own cashflow to make it happen, a responsibility the record company should have. So it's no risk to them. It's the attitude, it's not the amount of money. They're just trying to mask what this band's really about. They're saying, "we have this band here, it's not really like this. This song's not really saying this. It's really saying butterflies and flowers."

CEVIN KEY: In the process of doing this everybody also learns what they want out of something and what they don't want. And quite often a lot of people that are in the corporate position have along the way learned that this world is all just selling to everybody else so that's all that somebody should care about in that position.

OGRE: That's never been the philosophy of this band.

CEVIN KEY: No, it's not been the philosophy of this band and that's what's to admire about labels that still cater to the artist and to the creativity level or to the quality of the project. Maybe that's what we should've been striving to have with Nettwerk but that's not to say that that's what Nettwerk fell out of; they realize that the business wold doesn't consist of that. It's just unfortunate that we landed in a position of being on a label that realized that somewhere along the way. I mean, even early in the history of Nettwerk, if you look at it from a realistic standpoint, we've done pretty good with a bunch of guys that don't believe in non-commercial music in a sense. I don't think Nettwerk gives a shit about music like Skinny Puppy now. I can guarantee it; I don't think a lot of labels do. But I do think that there are a couple of people out there that are genuinely interested. A good size handful of 200,000 people are into this in a supportive sense and those are the people that we make records for. There are a few companies that gear towards those sort of people and . . .


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. . . that sort of thing. It's just a matter of Skinny Puppy getting out of the feeling of getting ripped by a company that wants to succeed in business and in moving onto a label that's going to be supportive to the artist. That's what the whole six years have been about anyway is learning.

STEVEN GILMORE: Has Capitol helped you a lot in getting exposure in the U.S.?

CEVIN KEY: A lot of people think different things. People involved in the record industry think that Capitol doesn't do a very good job of exposing our records in the sense of standing behind them and promoting them in the areas where they should be. But other people say, "well, hey I can buy a Skinny Puppy record in the K-mart in Dallas." So there's pros and cons to both.

STEVEN GILMORE: After "Mind TPI" came "Cleanse", which was one of the first releases to get good press.

CEVIN KEY: Mind TPI was the first.

OGRE: Mind TPI made #11 in Melody Maker's Top 100. So that was the first record where we got really good recognition.

CEVIN KEY: Actually it was Mind TPI and Cleanse together that got #11 because they both came out in the same year; one at the early part and one at the end. Cleanse was a transition period between the way we had written before in the analog sense and setting up the old way. And then all of a sudden we had this huge changeover into MIDI and modern technology and that's when we sort of had to come to terms with, "oh boy, we've got to use these other new toys now and try and figure out how to use these in ways that aren't going to be just like using them normally." Part of the way we used other gear before was in a screwy sense that we were coming up with different sound in the way we were misusing things. So we had to come up with a way of misusing computers and MIDI and Cleanse was like part one of that experiment. I think there's a couple of really great moments on Cleanse in the sense that we just decided to do a couple songs that really were not like us at all like The Mourn and Draining Faces and some stranger songs like Anger which were really a transition period into more noise collage than music. Whereas before we were always interested in coming up with a verse, a chorus, and then sort of weirding out on that. So it was the beginning of a transition period for us.

STEVEN GILMORE: And then after Cleanse came "VIVIsectVI" and a few 12"s as well - "Censor" and "Testure". When "Testure" came out there was a lot of controversy over it because of its association with vivisection and animal rights. And that was the second video that got banned, wasn't it.

OGRE: Yeah. Apparently there was a poll out East that they gave people on whether or not this video should be seen and it came out really close. It came out 48 to 52 or something.

STEVEN GILMORE: Who did the poll?

CEVIN KEY: City TV did the poll at 6 o'clock on the news hour and presented it as the most controversial video they'd received in the whole year and they couldn't decide whether to show it because of its content being that of animal rights, antivivisection. What they were saying is, "this video has a point in the way that it chooses to present itself. Should we show this on TV" and presented the poll.

OGRE: It came out really close but the powers that be are still the ones who program the video shows. That video was banned more on past merit and maybe what they've heard us talking about.

STEVEN GILMORE: And City TV is associated with Much Music which is "the nations music station".

CEVIN KEY: The funniest thing in the world was that I was sitting at Gary's place, the guy who made the video, and we were just sitting there and had no idea that it was gonna be on at all and we just happened to be sitting there and it was just a few weeks after we made it. All of a sudden we were watching the TV and Gary flipped the channel and we saw the very beginning of the video and we thought, "how is this possible. It's not even on a music station, it's not even on anything and here it is. And then they came back and it was sort of like a cutaway from the news broadcast. So, in reality we were lucky we were watching the TV that day because otherwise we probably wouldn't have even known about it.

STEVEN GILMORE: Isn't that the time when you moved to Toronto? How was it working with Ogre still being in Vancouver and you and Dwayne working out of Toronto? Did you find that difficult?

OGRE: Well there were a lot of rumors.

STEVEN GILMORE: That you guys had split up?

OGRE: Yeah, things like that or people thinking the whole band had moved out there or whatever. It was a lot of speculation more than anything. I don't think it really overall affected anything from how all the past albums were done because all the albums were done in a more or less separate way.

CEVIN KEY: The process didn't change as far as the making of the album. we came back to Vancouver for the whole summer, we still went into the studio. What we do is like a beginning point, like an inspiration first and then go into the studio and hopefully it will inspire everybody to finish off into this idea that we can call a Skinny Puppy song.

OGRE: Hopefully we can put up with each other.

STEVEN GILMORE: Well, didn't you find it hard to communicate when one person's here and one person's there?

CEVIN KEY: I called Ogre on the phone; I saw Ogre when he was on tour with Ministry. It was like a break, it was intended as a break.

OGRE: It was difficult in one sense, and this is getting back to tour record label. In one sense it was bad because it gave some people who we'd given control, through disinformation, the opportunity to divide and conquer. A very principle business tactic was used and that's where some problems did erupt. Andy problem with that separation was inflamed through that more than anything else.

STEVEN GILMORE: Inflamed through Nettwerk?

OGRE: Yeah. Just that cross communication instead of direct communication.

STEVEN GILMORE: Anyway, you didn't find problems being in separate cities and it was a good break for all members

CEVIN KEY: Well, we were all zipping around at that time doing our own thing.

OGRE: For me it was the peak of a bad drug period. I'm not sure how it was for you guys but right before VIVIsectVI I was having a few problems.

STEVEN GILMORE: And then you went to see Betty Ford and she straightened it all out for you.

OGRE: No, I went to see Spahn Ranch and psycho-crawl lady and twist legs and learned a lot of lessons about life. Paranoia's like a disease, you keep catching it. So I had a problem cause I came back from all that with a disease and it affected my relation ship with some people around me and put a strain on things I'm sure to a lot of people involved.

STEVEN GILMORE: Like Skinny Puppy as well?

OGRE: Yeah, for sure. I'll openly admit that but I think the end result, VIVIsectVI was a good album and that's the important thing. Although I may have put into jeopardy my own values. I always said no matter how fucked up I got I'd always do what I had to do, whether it'd be to do a show and thank god I've never fucked that one up.

STEVEN GILMORE: Didn't you get beaten up by some skinheads at one point?

OGRE: I was questioned about my loyalty towards communism because I had a little red star on my pants. They handed me these pieces of paper with this face an a "V: going back and a whole bunch of ethnic writings saying "hey white man" with an address for the organization which they're representing where you get instruction as information. I kind of mouthed back to them saying "does this mean I’m a sperm, does this mean I'm a tiger," pointing to all the various patches . . .


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. . . on my jacket. "Why aren't you wearing Aryan symbols on your jacket?" And just mouthing off. And my girlfriend came back and I sta4rted following her and they were coming to the same apartment to a place where a guy lives who is a skinhead and they kind of followed us in and I felt like I was being threatened so I pushed back and a fight kind of started from there. But it turned out I was just mouthy to them, to their facist ways, right? And I should've had my doc martins up al the way and I shouldn't look like such a mophead and I should have more respect. To me it isn't all skinheads that I have a problem with. I actually used to respect a lot of skinheads and I still do since some of them are really nice guys. It's just that the ones that are being used by the KKK as grunts, as little mindless sponges who absorb information used as instruction, which is what the KKK wants. And it's also, in their young ways, an invitation for somebody to disagree with them so they can start a fight. That's the ultimatum, that's the end result for them is to be able to fight and puff their chest up.

STEVEN GILMORE: Didn't you write a song about that particular experience?

OGRE: It's called Facist Jock Itch, on the new album. But it wasn't skinheads, it was these little nazi grunts.

STEVEN GILMORE: What's the difference between a skinhead and an Aryan youth?

OGRE: Well, there're a lot of skinheads that perhaps aren't as involved in that political instruction that is racial. There most definitely is, and they exist. I don't want to label the whole thing as being Aryan skinheads and that's why it's "facist jock itch" because it's not really saying it's a skinhead as much as it's kind of a facist jock scratching their balls.

STEVEN GILMORE: After "Testure" you had quite a long break in between recording, right?

CEVIN KEY: A year. We toured Europe and the States. With the whole controversy with the dog and all that stuff.

STEVEN GILMORE: Didn't you get thrown in jail?

OGRE: We were arrested on the assumption that a live experiment was performed on a live dog and there was real mutilation, snuff kind of stuff. So they sent some plain detectives down who were completely rude assholes and had no right to do what they did. we were freaked about losing the dog the night before with no security. It was a $1,000 dog that was done by an artist; for me it was like a teddy bear. We lost it the night before and I was wrecked. So that next night they basically broke in. We asked them to show identification and there was nothing and they thought we were hiding shit by not letting them in and they became like rambo city and basically broke in, saw it was a stuffed dog and started mouthing us off. And Cevin stood up at first and basically told them where to go and everybody was arrested.

STEVEN GILMORE: What did you say?

CEVIN KEY: I said, "you're a real fucking asshole."

OGRE: He was just going "sit down, sit down," and Cevin wouldn't sit down. He was like, "you're going down" and immediately when he said that I just stood up and I stood there and the guy goes "sit down," looking right in my face and I went "no." And then the real police came in, city police. Its so stupid how things can just go along like that. And these guys came in not knowing anything and was me in this face-off with this dork who had no right doing what he was doing in the first place but was actually creating a reason to arrest us. They basically slammed me up against a wall and handcuffed me and then we got escorted out and people were trying to tell them that we're against experimentation with animals. That's what they had perceived we were being arrested for because they'd heard that there was a complaint about it.
OGRE: We were taken down and all the time I think Cevin was having visions of Mississippi Burning or something cause he was telling me to shut up cause I was mouthing off to these guys. This one guy was so rude. He was going "yeah, I wish I had a bat and a can of mace. I should’ve walked through that crowd and kicked some of those little vampire girls in the cunt." There was this dumb bitch that was beside him and she was just listening to that chauvinistic bullshit and just kind of going "well, yeah he's probably my6 superior." It was ironic because the roles had switched because when we were in the lockup the guys behind the desk were talking like criminals. They were talking about things that they were going to do that weekend, things they arrest people for. I wasn't wearing any shirt cause I'd just gotten off stage. It was like total muck warfare.

CEVIN KEY: Then we were off that tour, and Ogre started doing stuff with Ministry.

STEVEN GILMORE: What kind of stuff?

OGRE: It might develop into stuff. We worked on some songs. I just helped him out with some lyrics because he has a problem with them. And I went down there last time, but at that time it was just more of a friendship.

STEVEN GILMORE: You also toured a little bit with Ministry as well.

OGRE: I played keyboards on that one tour and sang on the Revolting Cocks. He's allowed me the chance to expand a bit and has given me roles in bands that aren't just revolved around singing. On the tour I'm supposed to go on it's cool because I'm doing very little singing. I'm just doing some backup vocals and doing some rhythm guitar and keyboards, which is again something which expands what I was doing in Skinny Puppy. It started more as a friendship, it wasn't really shows. The shows weren't us collaborating on anything, it was me playing his music and learning.

STEVEN GILMORE: Were you the one that was instrumental in getting Al to co-produce "Rabies"?

OGRE: He was always interested in doing it, he always expressed an interest to me. But it was ll of our decisions; Rave wasn't shitting because he's working on the Ministry album as well.

STEVEN GILMORE: And do you think Al Jourgensen's involvement with Skinny Puppy has changed the sound any?

OGRE: I think anyone's involvement with Skinny Puppy has changed the sound. Obviously I think Al has because he has an energy he brings about and he has a certain way of doing things. But I'm not sure as far as the writing goes.

CEVIN KEY: The writing's always going to change with time. Bit I think that we've pretty well stuck to what we've been. I don't think we've gone out of the guidelines at all in a sense that Al was another part of the machine to make it happen.

STEVEN GILMORE: He also played a lot of guitar on the album as well, right?

CEVIN KEY: He played guitar on a few songs. It was a great time in the studio when certain people were over feeling pressure about time and stuff. I had a great time and look forward to doing more, with or without Al. I'm always looking forward to the next one.

OGRE: If we can put up with each other again.

STEVEN GILMORE: So, "Rabies" is out now. And you've got "Warlock" coming out for January release is it?

CEVIN KEY: February.

STEVEN GILMORE: Isn't the new video for "Warlock" made to be banned?

OGRE: It was made as a statement to hopefully jarr some people into looking at censorship more closely and what censorship on the extreme does to horror movies but how that can affect everybody's lives and can go a lot further if you project into the future. What we've seen through horror movies in the last ten years; we've seen a remarkable amount of censorship and in that medium we've seen that, so we express it in that medium. And with the intent of it getting banned or at least with no apprehension about it getting banned. As well, for people who like horror movies it's a great roller coaster ride.

STEVEN GILMORE: It's every gross bit you could possibly imagine?

OGRE: Not every gross bit, but some select ones that we went through and found. . . .


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. . . And some things in particular that were censored by the MPAA - drug movies and things like that.

STEVEN GILMORE: Don't you have a message at the beginning of the video?

OGRE: It says, "dedicated to the horror." With Skinny Puppy, with a restricted logo, the warning is there. And then for anybody who reads it it's spelled FUMPAA and that means "fuck you MPAA."

STEVEN GILMORE: And on the back of the single you're also going to have an address for people to write.

OGRE: Yeah, we'll have an address for people to write if they're interested in expressing their discontent with that issue, with the continuing mask that censorship has put on our culture and on so many things. It isn't just horror movies - horror is our genre so we express it in that, cause it's fun to do. But with other people it's art - not being able to get federal funding for art exhibits cause somebody's already deemed it to be offensive.

STEVEN GILMORE: Does the MPAA have anything to do with that?

OGRE: No, it's a whole other organization, I'm just saying it exists, and not just in the horror genre.

STEVEN GILMORE: What are your plans with this album. Are you going to tour?

OGRE: You already asked this question Steven. You tried to sneak it in about a half an hour ago.

CEVIN KEY: I hope so.

OGRE: Well, I've got some things I've got to look into and explore. I'm going to be going on a Ministry tour and perhaps a Revolting Cocks tour.

STEVEN GILMORE: When will that take you up to?

OGRE: Probably next year, next September.

STEVEN GILMORE: So, it's pretty much inevitable that you won't be touring for "Rabies".

OGRE: At this point it's hard to say about anything. I'm in a real purgatory state right now - it's not quite hell, it's not quite heaven. And I'm just going out to see what another kind of working process is like.

STEVEN GILMORE: So, will you be touring with Ministry and RevCo as well, or is this just live?

OGRE: I think I'll be doing some recording.

STEVEN GILMORE: For the new albums?

OGRE: Uh-huh.

STEVEN GILMORE: What about these rumors that Skinny Puppy are going to be splitting up then?

OGRE: Well, one thing that I can say is that's probably the closest to the truth without being the truth that anybody could've said. Because Skinny Puppy to me, and I don't know if Cevin will agree, has always been on the verge of breaking up. If I believed in rumors I'd be dead of a heroine overdose. It's a lot of talk and talk can only be justified when it's actually seen. I think there's a lot of confusion right now and those things should be sorted out. I was in a state which isn't necessarily cause by this band but is caused by my life where I'm constantly looking at myself and hoping for happiness and thinking certain things were happiness and finding that it's not all what Walt Disney said it was going to be.

STEVEN GILMORE: From what I hear Sire records had told MTV that Skinny Puppy were breaking up and you were going to be joining Ministry. Is that what they said on MTV?

OGRE: Well they should've ridden the hype on that one. I'm at a point right now where it's like nothing's for sure really. What did Mickey Rourke say in Angel Heart, today's Wednesday, but we'll say it's Friday. "Today's Friday. You know what day it is on the Mickey Mouse Club? It's anything can happen day."

STEVEN GILMORE: Cevin, you're also doing outside projects. You're working on Hilt?

CEVIN KEY: It's just a bunch of friends getting together and putting out a record.

STEVEN GILMORE: What kind of record?

CEVIN KEY: Just whatever comes out.

STEVEN GILMORE: And you've also got another thing coming out with Bill Leeb from Front Line Assembly?

CEVIN KEY: Yeah, we got a good offer to do a thing. And Bill seems to have changed a lot since when I last associated with him. I don't know, I think my move has done something to me or people are changing. I think it's time to just stop negativity.

STEVEN GILMORE: So you and Bill had a negative kind of thing going for a while? <

CEVIN KEY: I don't know if it's intrinsic to this city but it just seems to be a never ending circle of paranoia and second hand rumor. It's continuous and I'm just dispelling it: I think I'm more in track with my personal life now than I've been in ages. There's a few things here and there that I can brush up on; with my relationship with Ogre, which I try. But Ogre's got to go off and do his thing, which is basically a mirror situation to what Dwayne and I just did when we moved to Toronto. I know that's a necessary thing to do; I would say that the time spent away is good, and maybe when Ogre's spent a couple months on the road with those guys he'll look back on us and realize it's not so bad.

STEVEN GILMORE: You're also working on something with Doubting Thomas.

CEVIN KEY: That's just all the songs that Dwayne and I have written that when we start are intended to be Skinny Puppy songs but when they turn out they're way to mellow. In the process of writing the past few albums we've built up a stockpile of those kind of songs and put them together and sent it out to this guy who just shit his pants when he heard it. He wants to release some soundtrack albums and his associations are such that he is part of a cartel of an agency that comes to these various people for one.

STEVEN GILMORE: What label is that?

CEVIN KEY: C'est la Mort.

STEVEN GILMORE: And Hilt is going to be still on Nettwerk?

CEVIN KEY: Nettwerk via Capitol or IRS. I now that IRS have heard it and really like it. Cause it has two people from Caterwall band on a few of the songs. And also Don Harrison of Songs of Freedom and Al Nelson sing. And Dave Ogilvie sings on one song too.

STEVEN GILMORE: Ogre, didn't I hear that you're putting together a separate band as well with Al Jourgensen, not Revolting cocks, not Ministry?

OGRE: There's talk about it, for sure. But that'll always be dependent on when this studio gets together in Chicago.

STEVEN GILMORE: Which studio, Wax Trax or Al?

OGRE: Al's getting his own studio together. That'll be really cool because it’ll be a good learning experience. He's gonna show me a few thing sand some other people have shown interest in doing something too.

STEVEN GILMORE: So basically you're both taking a hiatus from Skinny Puppy for a little while and try some different things out but most likely you will probably do another album.

OGRE: Anything's possible in this wacky world.


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